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Monkey see, monkey do?

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  • George BThe Legacy Speaker

    We don’t have the game yet, so obviously not much can be said about strategy right now. I was just thinking that it would be very easy for an inexperienced or simply lazy and unstudied magi to simply cast rituals all the time, watching a team-mate and then saying and doing exactly what they did each turn. Casting as a ritual as much as possible. I’m not sure, but I think this might get annoying … ? What does anyone else think about the strategy of copy-cat magi?

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    I think that playstyle would likely be fairly weak, as it puts all the effort on the shoulders of one teammate and results in very slow casting, which your opponent(s) could take advantage of.

    I mean, obviously, I can’t say for sure until I have the game, but that’s my guess.

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    Jake, Avatar of KalenThe Inscriber

    As noted with Eve Speaker: even if you get to see the incantation before casting it, there’s still a fair rate of messing up. (Miscasts with rituals, I’m not sure if there’s anything special to that. Does just the resonance of that added spell go out to everyone else, does it fizzle the entire ritual, something else?)

    And that does require a whole person to do nothing but up the level of spells (which doesn’t necessarily boost the effect! As we’ve seen so far the only time level really comes into play is in the attack/defense dynamics to determine if an attack is successful, blocked with durability loss, or blocked without durability loss. Meanwhile, another team of two could fling out much more comprehensive spells, or pick off one of the two members of the team (casting rituals all the time DOES make it harder to protect yourself unless you can get some AoE defenses or something up).

    So, I don’t really think it’s gonna be too much of a problem? May actually be good practice for newbies to do something like this though, helpful but not overpowered.

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    I agree that it’s not likely to be much of a problem. It would also require that the team mate stick with level 1 incantations and that you’d be casting only duplicates and rituals. Not something that’s going to deter somebody that’s capable of casting level 3 incantations or has an ample supply of ways to interrupt such rituals.

    So yes, I think that this playstyle would be weak enough that you’re not going to see it much. And that’s before you really consider miscasts.

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    Ervkar FaustThe Magi

    It’s certainly possible but I feel like it would be an extremely weak play style against even a mildly experienced player. Rituals are extremely powerful, but they are disruptable and with the right shield at the right level the strategy becomes null and void. A player could have two lackies and run around casting lvl 1 spells as level 3 spells every turn but that’s one “real” cast a turn for three magi which is wildly inefficient and ineffective. Sure you’re getting a heavy hit out once a turn, but it’s still counterable and your lackies and you are pretty much wide open to retaliation, if your lackies go down then you’re down to level 1 spells and a completely cored strategy.

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    Speaker SuinivrasThe Legacy Speaker

    I agree that copy cats are not a particularly powerful strategy, but it might be a significant method for introduction and integration of new apprentices. I am looking forward to the play testing PDF to test this concept. Another balance to the copy cat is the resonance boost that allies can get from a miscast leaving some residual benefit to trying a spell and failing. On the surface this appears to be well balanced for mixed play ( Maji with apprentices ).

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    Christopher GabrielsonThe Servant of the Awakening

    Interesting point. It could possibly be a viable strategy if you had a beginner player match your codex fairly identically. But it would suffer from lack of variability. But at level 1 most players can just use the glyph to cast, and at level 2 it would get tricky to hold a completely unfamiliar cast phrase in short term memory every time to cast the ritual.

    But more importantly, there is an aspect of Rituals not demonstrated in the Gameplay video of Brian’s because they had not progressed to that point in the tutorial yet. Rituals require additional key words to be incorporated into the spell, depending on the nature of the incantation that is being Ritualized. These Ritual keys are included in the Codex and add a small level of complexity that tends to eliminate the ability for players to ‘copy cat’ rituals.

    These extra Ritual key words were not designed to prevent copy catting, since it really hasnt been an issue, but rather to balance the thematic power of Rituals. To weave Serpent’s Tongue into another’s Incantation requires greater knowledge and skill, not less.

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    Legacy Speaker TeamskiThe Legacy Speaker

    Ooh, now that is interesting! Thanks for that little tidbit of depth Chris! I like it.

    -Ski

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    George BThe Legacy Speaker

    Sounds good to me, too. I guess I’ll go dismiss my lackeys, now. Thanks for the info!

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    Konira ShinigamiThe Legacy Speaker

    I hear of Quantum spells that change the dance to make the monkey lead

    Konira Shinigami
    Speaker Legacy ^~^ Trickster Reaper

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    Bob Allen(@BobbyAllen1)The Speaker Instructor - Distributor

    GB, you could train your lackeys so they follow your guidance, yet have the skill to deviate if needed. Good lackeys will do what is necessary to protect you, even if it means you will punish them later for not following your orders.

    LS Bob

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    Amarus RelorThe Magi

    That may be true LS Bob. But if two Magi are to go through the paces and effort to achieve that would you not say that means they have earned they extra power granted by such a strategy?

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    lou9x9The Adept

    Wouldn’t the copy cat be wide open for attacks especially if they’re fighting a high level magi?

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    WarDriveWorleyThe Legacy Speaker

    @lou9x9 I would believe so. Especially if the opposing players recognize what’s happening and prepares for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a way to disrupt a casting or ritual before they fully take effect.

    Also it would be REALLY a huge downfall if you say copied a friend’s codex spell for spell then went into a game to find out that all your spells are useless or reduced (like an all flame codex against a flame sculptor specialty).

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